Ultra-light sleep system

[tanman1337]

I am really early in planning for the AZTR 750 next year so I didn't really want to start that thread quite yet, but I had a quick planning question for some people who have done the 750. I'm thinking of taking an super light Event bivy, Neoair pad, and only a down layer that I can just wear (i.e. down pants, jacket, hood, and booties) instead of a bag at all so that I can use the clothing as dual purpose. I thinking behind it is I can wear the down layers around camp and other times if I need, but I cannot wear a sleeping bag. Just looking to see if anyone else has gone this route or if I will get way too cold on the Mogollon Rim or other spots? Thanks.

-Tanner

[Bill in Houston]

subscribing.   i predict your feet would get really really cold, but i don't have any basis for that.  hoping to see what others say.

[Foster]

Forget about the Neopad, too much cactus on the AZTR.  Just stick with a light foam pad. Simpler, cheaper, light and will never pop.  Also you don't have to blow it up. 

[Flounder]

I have used a NeoAir all over the desert including the hyper-pokey Superstition Mountains and not once...ever...put a hole in my pad. Not it at least 30 nights. You just have to be aware of your turf.

Regarding your overall objective, it has a couple challenges. For one thing, a super light sleeping bag like a 800 fill 30 degree bag will clock in at a scant 20-23 ounces. Booties alone will weigh 8-12. You could in theory use something like an Elephant's Foot from TNF and a light down shirt like the First Ascent Micro Therm Down Shirt, but that's still way over 20 ounces. You could even use a Thermarest Haven Top or Alpine Down Blanket and get to that sub 22 ounce bag with a minimum of packed volume. At any rate, using down pants, booties and jacket will be far more bulk and weight than a light bag.

[12wheels]

Jacks-R-Better makes a wearable down quilt which weighs 16-17oz and is rated to 40-45 degrees. 
  http://www.jacksrbetter.com/Wearable%20Quilts.htm
It is really well made, packs small, and cosst less than the four items especially if you wait for one of their sales.

[AZTtripper]

Yeah I can't see all of the clothing coming in at less weight and bulk then a bag.

I can't see needing down clothing, seems like it would be too hot to wear while moving and once your stopped just get in the bag.

I have heard this from AZT hikers who don't carry a lot of warm clothing. Just enough to keep you warm and dry when moving and then get in the bag once you stop.

Personally I like the comfort of sleeping on air. I have used my Pro-light 4 in AZ for more then 100 nights out just check the ground before laying it out.

I think the standard bag for racing is a 45 deg. The Mountain Hardware Phantom 45 weighs in at 2 oz more then the Jackrbetter quilt and you can zip it up and hold in body heat.

[Foster]

Well I guess you have better luck with the Neo, I have put a hole in mine each time I have used it.  I am also very aware of my surroundings and where I lay the pad. 

I use a 55 degree bag, very small and even lighter.  But I don't live in the desert and I like cold weather so a 55 degree bag is comfortable for me if I put on my light down jacket and some socks.

[tanman1337]

Thanks for all the advice. The big issue wasn't having to buy all the clothing because I already have everything except the down booties which come in at only 2.4 oz from Titanium Goat. Tim, I definitely see how it makes since just to ride until you are completely done and then get in a bag. The big reasoning behind my thought process was that there were quite a few times on the 300 this year that I was freezing in my bag at night and it was usually my legs. So, I swore to myself that I would bring something warmer for my legs next year. I was rocking a 42 degree synthetic SnugPak sleeping bag though... I'm wondering if I should go with down instead. I guess I'm worried about the down bag just because of how many condensation issues I had this year on the trail. Every morning my bag was soaking wet.

[tanman1337]

Have any of you guys used an Event bivy yet? I'm wondering how well moisture escapes.

[tanman1337]

Hey Foster, I don't think it helps that I'm from 118 degree Yuma... lol I get cold really easy. I'm mainly concerned about getting caught on Lemmon or up on the Mogollon Rim in a snow storm and turning into an ice cube

[tanman1337]

As far as the pad is concerned, I'm just trying to shave a little weight. I brought a thicker thermal-rest air pad this year and it worked fine, but I wanted to shave a little more weight

[RossC]

Subscribing: I'm aiming at heading over for the 750 for 2013. This should be fun!

[AZTtripper]

I tried the Neo in the store and didn't care for it. The Pro Lite 4 that's 6 years old it still work so I stuck with that these new ones look great http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/category

Down vs Synthetic

I let the whole condensation thing keep me away from down for years. Now that I have had one for 6 years I only use synthetic in the summer.

Tanner did you sleep in a tent every night?

Check out http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Tarp-Kit/index.htm Ray is the zen master of breathable shelter setups.

Going with a lighter bag and adding the down jacket or even just a vest seems like a good way to go. I just can't see giving up the cocoon warmth of a down bag.

[mbeardsl]

I tried the Neo and it seemed way too noisy for me.  I can sleep through anything but I couldn't imagine falling asleep with all that crunching going on.  I got the one linked above, full length as I'm tall, and it's great although heavier than the Neo.  Blowing it up isn't anything I even think about.  Let it breath, give it a couple breaths and it's good to go.

Can't recall where I saw it (and I'm paraphrasing), but if you went crazy you could cut a large portion of the bottom of your sleeping bag off (the part that you sleep on, not the bottom here your feet are) as it doesn't help you when it's compressed.  Sew the remaining top to a piece of ground cover cut to fit for protection, and slip your mat INSIDE the bag.  Self contained, protects the mat a bit, just as warm as before.  You have now saved weight so you can bring those down booties and/or pants (at least partially).  If you always bivy you could skip the ground cover and sew the top to the mat and save an oz or two.  You can fine tune how big of  bag you want also.

[Georg66]

I went with the following gear
http://kgdeck.blogspot.com/2012/04/favorite-sleeping-system-39-days-till.html
But added a very lite silk tarp, wich I put some inches over my face and body, using very thin rope.
Was comfortable even in elevation above 10000 ft. Once I was too lazy using the tarp (Lakeview Campgrd, WY), I felt cold. Temps were frisky, had hoarfrost 3 times.

However, I did not using it in pooring rain ...

[tanman1337]

I tried the Neo in the store and didn't care for it. The Pro Lite 4 that's 6 years old it still work so I stuck with that these new ones look great http://cascadedesigns.com/therm-a-rest/mattresses/fast-and-light/category

Down vs Synthetic

I let the whole condensation thing keep me away from down for years. Now that I have had one for 6 years I only use synthetic in the summer.

Tanner did you sleep in a tent every night?

Check out http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Tarp-Kit/index.htm Ray is the zen master of breathable shelter setups.

Going with a lighter bag and adding the down jacket or even just a vest seems like a good way to go. I just can't see giving up the cocoon warmth of a down bag.

No, I ended up going with an REI Minimalist Bivy. I ended up having huge condensation issues and was freezing cold every night. I was using a synthetic Snug-Pak 40 degree bag. I really think I'm going to get an Event bivy from Mountain Laurel Designs, a 30 or 40 degree down bag for Zpacks, and I just bought my NeoAir pad so I will probably go with that. I figure that will be an extremely light set up. I never realized how much lighter the down bags are than synthetic. I think that will be a sub 2 and a half pound sleep system which is pretty good for someone who needs extra large everything since I'm 6'3". What do you guys think of that setup option? Has any actually every used Event fabric yet? How breathable is it really?