Using cell phones in ultra racing

[seabrin]

But do you feel like people with phones somehow have an unfair advantage on you?  Do you think others using phones interferes with your event?

I am against the idea of RV support vehicles is because it is both unfair and even if we all used big RVs with crews it would ruin the journey into nature.  Support crews and equipment drops give the recipient an advantage and also create a negative experience for others because of the increased impact on the event.

Do cell phones providing information only give an advantage or is it just a matter of style?  Does "knowing" stuff from friends via cell phone give an advantage?  On the other hand could it be that "knowing" via an internal conversation, notes, and prayers to your gods is actually better then having access to all the information?  It seems that some people might be slower or at a disadvantage because they use phones.  

I don't see why access to information intrinsically allows someone to be faster.  It seems that if using simple phones to call friends is wrong we would also need to conclude that using of smart phones to access web sites and apps is also wrong?  If accessing information is wrong it might also be wrong to ask advice from other riders you meet on route.

I can't really say if another rider using a phone, smart or dumb, would gain an advantage on me. It could make them slower or faster, or it could end their ride altogether; perhaps they would risk to much to keep their position and sustain a race-ending injury. It really depends on the psyche of the rider and what they do with the information. If I were pressed to give an answer, I would say that the fact that it CAN provide an advantage is enough to ban it. I agree with TheArtist's position here; the only thing that should be in my head during the ride are my own thoughts. Any distractions lead away from any enlightenment and a deeper understanding of the self. Everyone has their reasons for taking up the challenge, but the essence is understanding. I don't know perhaps I'm wrong about that.

On the idea of information, like a gun it is neither good nor bad. It is simply a tool to be used or not used. I could fashion a sail out of a sleeping bag to harness a tailwind. I could use a series of mail drops to resupply a specific type of food not available on the TD route. Or use the same system to stage equipment tailored for specific parts of the course. I view the information available to me via a smartphone in much the same way. During the ideal race, my interaction with the world would be reduced to the feedback of my immediate surroundings and nothing else. Such austerity is not easily followed, but it can still be the ideal to which I aspire.

[Bill in Houston]

Any distractions lead away from any enlightenment and a deeper understanding of the self.

Yup.  I like to get away and be with my thoughts and feelings on my own.  But, there is a certain breed of "racer" who is completely disinterested in self-enlightenment.  You have probably seen the type out there.

[Flounder]

And all this time I thought UCI had silly rules. There are 23 subset rules just for handlebars in UCI racing. It would appear that ultra racing will soon have just as many for cell phones. Bummer. Maybe ultra racing isn't for me.

[THE LONG RANGER]

And all this time I thought UCI had silly rules. There are 23 subset rules just for handlebars in UCI racing. It would appear that ultra racing will soon have just as many for cell phones. Bummer. Maybe ultra racing isn't for me.

Oh geez, we're just yappin' about. Nothin' wrong with playing a round of, "what if?"

What else can you do when you're recovering?

[Done]

Bummer. Maybe ultra racing isn't for me.

Quit whining, and ride your bike then.

[ron]

Re distraction devices (namely music), I think it's a false dilemma to suppose that one can choose either silent self-discovery or a tuned-out zombie status, with no room in between.

For my AT thru-hike (solo, no ad hoc pairing up, 4 mo/4 days-- have I impressed JayP yet?  ) I took no phone and no music, and yeah I got to some neat places mentally and experientially, but in retrospect I think my hike could've been enhanced by that connection to the world I'd left (and indeed, could've transported me to yet other places in my mind as tunes brought back associations and memories to plumb, etc).

On phones, I have no right to an opinion re the TDR, but I'll give one anyway since that's just what one does on forums-- I'd think they should be carried for emergency use only, if at all. Check in from towns as needed.

[trebor]

If it isn't shared it didn't happen.

Now that's a sentence that could turn this place on it's ear.

[bmike-vt]

Now that's a sentence that could turn this place on it's ear.

What happens on route stays on route. The first rule of ultra racing is that you don't talk about ultra racing rules.

[Flounder]

Quit whining, and ride your bike then.

Can do!

Seriously, though. After 26 years of road and mtb racing, I'm regulation-phobic. When rules started showing up dictating how tall your socks could be, ultra-racing started to look pretty casual and fun. So, with regard to "distractions" will there eventually be a panel of judges to assess time bonuses based on how Zen your race experience is? What if I hug every tenth tree I pass? What if I don't take an iPod, but take a banjo?

[DenisVTT]

I think I've made up my mind on the use of cell phones to get race info like other racers' positions or moral support.

Basically, I don't care!

I don't think it makes enough of a difference one way or another, and even if it did, like Mark said, people who may not have friends to talk to might be able to talk to Zeus or whoever their imaginary friend is.

Too much potential regulation, too little impact on the race itself.

[Yogi the Barry]

If you took a banjo, that would be unfair because strings could be used as emergency spokes or floss. Higher ground is to take an iPhone and download a banjo* app.
[*Like the social discovery app BAN.JO]

...What if I don't take an iPod, but take a banjo?

[wookieone]

I don't think they should be banned, I just think that the experience of racing is enhanced by not having that "connection", I mean the TD or the GDR are long, but if it can't wait a day, why go off on a race like that? It's not an argument about rules for me, but about purity of the experience. Focus on pushing yourself and the bike. Jefe

[mnmtb]

Unfortunately that horse has left the barn.

Take the iPhone.  It can be your GPS, camera, and is actually required to turn on the Spot device (Spot connect).

It's not "what" it is, but how one uses it.  I for one am tired of all the threads that detour to rules.  The rules are spelled out and simple.  In the end you have to live with the decisions you make and live under the roof of the house you build.  I sleep well under my roof because I have too much respect for everyone else I share these adventures with.

Zip

[mbeardsl]

Yup.  I like to get away and be with my thoughts and feelings on my own.  But, there is a certain breed of "racer" who is completely disinterested in self-enlightenment.  You have probably seen the type out there.

Not to get sidetracked but I don't understand this hate for racers vs those who are on another plane of enlightenment.  Who says what is right or wrong or what any person should get out of an experience?  I'm in the middle somewhere between "racing" and "being enlightened", and I don't see anything wrong with either end.  I do see something wrong with preaching/assuming you are a better person etc etc etc because you are at either end of that spectrum.

As for phones in ultra races, I tend to agree with febikes in that it's style points akin to Matt Lee's anti-hoteling.  We don't harp on guys for checking in on computers during the race but do for phone use?  I don't get it.  Additionally I agree with a poster above in that it can be good or bad.  Me talking to my wife would be 50% wanting to continue and 50% wanting to go home regardless of the topic.  It's a tool that can be used to better or worsen your condition.

As for music, I couldn't go without it for weeks on end because it's an integral part of my life and has been for as long as I can remember.  For some people it isn't and that's cool too.  Just like smells, music brings back memories that I cherish (and hate), and I don't think that's a bad thing.  I'd prefer that whatever I listened to on a ride like the TD would bring associations to that experience later also that I may not get without it (seems to be the way my brain works).  I hear certain songs and remember driving to Scuba lessons when I was 14 or reading a favorite book or riding a certain trail.  I like that.   I'm not saying I need it 24/7 but I get in a mood from time to time on the bike.  Oddly I don't listen to music on any "regular" training rides.

[riverfever]

The frequency of threads dealing with rules and regulations in events has gone through the roof here lately. It's actually kept me from participating here and put me into more of a "check in" mode. I haven't done a lot of this stuff but I sure have seen things with my own eyes that have stunned me (and I am not at all talking about someone using a phone or listening to a stupid ipod either). Right away I realized that if they could still look themselves in the eyes after it was all said and done then that's all that mattered. I've never been the whistle blower type and I personally don't give a rats ass what anyone else does out there so long as it does not put me in a pinch. Life is too short. I truly don't even care if someone were to come in with a time ahead of me after hitching a ride and cutting part of the course. 

I don't know. Maybe I should reconsider the mass start and go ITT for the CT? I fear Im about done with the "organized" un-organized events. 

[Bill in Houston]

Not to get sidetracked but I don't understand this hate for racers vs those who are on another plane of enlightenment.  

I can't imagine hating someone for having a different approach.  It's just a different way of doing things.  Ride your own ride.

[DaveH]

There's a great line by Robert Millar in a Cyclingnews article today: 

At the end of the day sport is about entertainment and which aspect of that you find enjoyment in is entirely personal.

Something to keep in mind if this (and similar threads) nauseate you.  There is nothing wrong with avoiding these threads.  For the most part, they are more about individuals coming to grips with the bikepacking paradox:  an ethos of self-support yet carried out in a group setting.  Start together, yet limit interactions with others. 

I really struggled through the most difficult rules thread a couple years back...ugh.  But, at the end of the day it did help me to define the rules for the Dixie events.

http://2-epic.com/events/rules.html

I opted for the "less is more", leaving it open for riders to experience an event however they choose with very little rule encroachment.  That's how it should be for an unofficial format of self-reliant individuals, no? KISS.

[Bill in Houston]

Something to keep in mind if this (and similar threads) nauseate you.  There is nothing wrong with avoiding these threads.

Yep.  If I actually cared what other people did, I would have to skip these threads, because they would stress me out too much.  As it is, it's a slow week at work and I am just enjoying the company and discussion.

[mbeardsl]

There's a great line by Robert Millar in a Cyclingnews article today: 

Something to keep in mind if this (and similar threads) nauseate you.  There is nothing wrong with avoiding these threads.  For the most part, they are more about individuals coming to grips with the bikepacking paradox:  an ethos of self-support yet carried out in a group setting .  Start together, yet limit interactions with others. 

I really struggled through the most difficult rules thread a couple years back...ugh.  But, at the end of the day it did help me to define the rules for the Dixie events.

http://2-epic.com/events/rules.html

I opted for the "less is more", leaving it open for riders to experience an event however they choose with very little rule encroachment.  That's how it should be for an unofficial format of self-reliant individuals, no? KISS.

Thanks for your input and link Dave. 

[Done]

That's how it should be for an unofficial format of self-reliant individuals, no?

I don't understand how someone can remain a "self-reliant individual" while bumming gear/food/water/assistance from other riders or other trail users, or by having someone text the locations of other competitors. In both instances, they would be reliant on someone else, no?

In the end, people are going to do what they want, regardless of what others think (as has been seen), and they are going to justify it however they can. I certainly am. Specifically, I'm going to continue to strive to be as truly self-reliant and independent as  possible, even if the rules don't require it. Yes, it's tougher--but, for me at least, that's the point!

I know that it's very possible to remain highly self-reliant (at least outside of towns) while racing something like the Colorado Trail Race. I've done it, and so have many others. Furthermore, it's also possible to have a damn good time, and to build some wonderful friendships.