XC *SKI* camping and epics, por favor?

[JeffOYB]

There's no forum for discussing modern XC Ski camping and "go far and fast" XC trail skiing.

Maybe we can share the space here! (Our local MMBA.org mtbike forum has a Winter Sports sub-forum.)

We might be a natural combination. (I note that the Backpackinglight crew having "winter hiking" but no real ski content.)

There's a group of us mtbikers here in Michigan who like to ski "big days" on singletrack trail. "Real" nordic skiers seem to want to have nothing to do with the idea. They're addicted to grooming.

We use the ideas of lightweight bikepacking in our epic XC Skiing. We're running about 10-15 lb packs to ski all day, up to 35 miles so far of trail-breaking on singletrack.

Like any sane person, once it snows we ski. Skis love snow. We love skis. Bikes hate snow -- unless it's ultra-hardpack -- and it's rarely hardpack on our trails in winter.

But apparently we're freaks because once the snow flies we want to keep enjoying the same singletrack trails that we enjoy in the summer.

I *will* grant the bikers and fatbikers the Mixed Seasons and Low Snow Conditions -- which are growing, apparently. If a trail is half snow and half dirt then skiing isn't the answer. ...But IF there's a firm half-inch base and you can hop over all dirt then you really should be on skis.

A *ton* of bikers DO ski. The worlds should be happy to co-exist. The reality is there already.

When we have good snow and it's cold -- a Blue Wax day -- there's nothing better than skiing! ...On the same trails that you bike!

What we do isn't A/T telemark ski-mountaineering. There *is* a bit of forum action for true "BC" stuff, with the big heavy boots and superwide skis. We use a lot of high-level ski handling skills, but really we're just skiing and adventuring on the very common hiking trails around here. We use midlength skis and common modern touring boots with a low modest cuff and NNN-BC bindings at most. ...Light, fast, far is our scene.

And we're trying to figure out how to best make the leap from "big days" to overnights. I personally hugely dislike skiing even with a 20-lb pack. It becomes slogging. Weight is even worse when skiing than it is when biking coz it's on your body. Or you can use a sled -- but are sleds tolerable for singletrack? ...It's a good question. Maybe a singletrack sled could be developed. People with a bikepacking mindset, and those who are into Epic Rides and multiday rides, might be the ones to best develop Singletrack Skiing and multiday XC skiing.

Whattaya think?

[bmike-vt]

personally, i need to up my winter camping gear and my ski skills before i take on anything like you mention... i have eyed some lean to-s with some nice terrain nearby - with the right weather current gear could work just fine.

i immediately thought of dave b. when i started reading your post. he carried all his gear on the canadian ski marathon...

http://type2fun.wordpress.com/2010/02/18/canadian-ski-marathon-2010/

[Damnitman]

This guy... http://www.iditasportalaska.com/the-race.html ...is mostly supported...approx 35 mile legs...sounds like exactly what you are looking to expand into...

[JeffOYB]

The "CSM" is a marvelous thing. I'd love to do it someday. But our epics involve more technical terrain and more trail-breaking. (We use a group of about 6 skiers to keep a good pace going, taking turns breaking trail.) Our packs couldn't be as awkward as theirs. But they ARE really close to what we're up to. ...But they're LOTS more supported.

Iditaski is a lot more like Arrowhead 135: goes thru valleys on wide snowmobile trails, not technical stuff. I think these guys mostly use sleds.

Really, we're just skiing Singletrack.

Those other scenes are kinda like bike touring fully loaded with racks and panniers. We're trying to find the bikepacking version for skiing! The light'n'nimble'n'fast way to go. I suppose we might have to spend a lot of $. To stay lightweight in winter you usually gotta spend. But who knows!

Maybe a Singletrack Sled concept is out there...

OK, maybe it won't be so tough. We could just use the Tour Divide approach of just eating the same all day and skiing into the night and bivvying then just getting cold and getting moving again in the wee-hours of morning. Movement means warmth.

I suppose it's not breaking "rules" to find a house and get water that way. I'd just love to solve the total puzzle for Self Supported. The daily gallon of water can be tricky to manage in winter for a fast moving team. I'd hate to stop and pump-filter very much. Spose we could, tho.

[sean salach]

I've developed an absolute love for nordic backcountry touring and trail skiing over the last two years. I prefer narrow metal edged skis though. I like skiing summer singletrack, but skiing is more about going where I can't easily go with a bike for me. If there's a semi firm trail, I prefer riding.


The Iditarod trail is slightly more technical than your giving it credit for. The trails are nothing like the arrowhead trail(not knocking them, but they're different. Iditarod trail is usually 1 to 2 snowmobile widths, or buried under new snow or wind drifts or overflow. You also go through the Alaska range. The descent from Rainy Pass is fun and fast.


*EDIT* I'm referring to the Iditarod Trail Invitational, not the Iditasport route.

[sean salach]

For ultralight xc ski backpacking, these show pack weights in the 25-35 lb range:

Alaska Range

2010 Alaska Mountain Wilderness Ski Classic [WINTER]

2013 Alaska Mountain Wilderness Ski Classic, Wrangell Mtns

2012 Alaska Mountain Wilderness Ski Classic, Brooks Range on Vimeo

On less remote trips, you could probably go lighter, with a sub 20 pound pack(+ water) if you wanted to push it.

And Luc Mehl's how-to: http://thingstolucat.com/fast-and-light-winter-travel/

[ridebikeme]

I ski a fair amount, although more Nordic than anything else. Although Each year, I always WANT to get more in the backcounty... of course I would need to work on my ski skills as well. Thanks for sharing your videos!

[biker_eric]

Here is a recent trip I took into Yellowstone.















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