Small Efficient Stoves

[jkcustom]

I am switching modes of travel this winter (from ski to bike) so all the small questions! I am a long time believer in my Whisperlite stove...but I am interested in something lighter to bring on the bike. What are thoughts on alcohol stoves or other. My main concern is not only lightness...but I don't want to be waiting 20 minutes to boil a liter of water.
Thanks!

[Pivvay]

What temps and altitude?

[FeloniousDunk]

I'm a big fan of simple alcohol stoves these days and think nearly everyone who's carrying a campstove should check them out.  I packed away my Whisperlite International about 5 years ago and have never missed it. 

That being said, what Pivvay said is important for alcohol stoves because of vapor pressure issues.  With a simple acohol stove you basically are relying on chemistry and environment to vaporize the alcohol so it'll burn well as compaired to the pump pressurized fuel of the WL and other pressurized gas stoves which eliminate (mostly) the temp and altitude factors.

By environment I mean just what Pivvay said, altitude and temp.  The higher your altitude are and the colder the air the slower the alcohol vaporizes and the slower it burns.  As some point it's probably not practicle, but I don't know where that is.

Sounds complicated to me, but here's the most beautiful thing about simple alcohol stoves...they are CHEAP, as in pennies, small and light.  So it's easiest to just try one out in the environment you're interested in.  If it works, great, if not no big loss. 

After experimenting with variations of the Pepsi Can stove, I got lazy and now use an open dish tealight stove.  Works good for me.  My most extreme experiences with it are only into the mid 20's F  and up to 5000 or so feet.  Works fine there, but boils slower than it does in the summer and uses a little less than twice the fuel (from the usual 1/2 ounce up to about 1 ounce) to boil my 450ml mug of water with lab grade methanol.  That methanol is the real good stuff and it makes a differance. 

I haven't dove into the science of it, but I feel that by keeping a little bottle of alcohol inside my clothes when it's cold as sort of a prewarmer helps a bit.  Also, I experimented with using a heat convector to transfer the heat of the flame down into the fuel in the stove.  All that was was taking a 3/4 inch long roofing nail, put a dab of JB weld on the head and stood it up in the bottom center of the stove with the point above the fuel line.  It certainly gets the fuel hot fast and burns the fuel faster but I'm not sure it saves any fuel, it may save time by a tiny bit though.   

You can cut the bottom 1/2-1 inch off the bottom of any small aluminum can (Starbucks Shot, Red Bull, 5.5 ounce V8, etc) and try that if you want more fuel capacity for larger pots and more extreme environments.  When I do another sub freezing trip, I'll do that so I don't have to refill my stoves fuel just as it starts to steam. 

Here's the site where I got the idea.  He has a lot of variations.  http://zenstoves.net/TeaLight.htm

[Pivvay]

Yea I love my little Esbit stove but for winter races I'm not sure it's viable. Could it be made to work? Maybe. Would it be worth it? I don't think so.

As much as I've tried to find a way around it, I'm not sure there is a sea level and really cold weather stove better than white gas. Lightening up a whisper lite is my current plan for the AH and the Ultrasport. You can get a Ti fuel bottle now and then on Ebay and do some lightening on the stove itself. There are mods you can do to a canister to get them working in the cold but none are mfg recommended and they work better at altitude where the lower atm pressure helps you out.

Polar explorers use white gas, they use canisters on the big E.

[jkcustom]

I am talking cold... to 30,40 below. These are conditions that I experienced on the Arrowhead last year. My MSR WL was up to the task and worked well. The idea of standing in the cold waiting is not appealing. A good friend of mine has recommended Heet.
I think I will try a few options as it gets colder here.

[Pivvay]

I think you'll be disappointed with anything not white gas or a canister with a self heating system which no US mfger will ever make. You could home make one though.

At sea level and lower altitudes (below 10k ft at least), I'm pretty sure white gas is the king. There are some backpackinglight posts on how to lighten up various stoves, new legs, etc. At -10F and below if there was a better (lighter, faster, simpler) system than white gas I think you'd see someone use it and I'm not aware of it. Heck MC certainly knows how to cut weight and he's running white gas stoves for AK.

[bmike-vt]

I've played with homemade and trangia alchohol stoves - made a ton of different versions last winter. I boiled water at low elevations in the cold - 10-20 deg F... it worked fine... but I wasn't ever in a life and death situation. And it certainly wasn't 30-40 below!

For high altitude, and super cold - nothing is going to beat white gas and / or a properly design canister system.

I don't think HEET will do it. It burns just fine - smells a bit funny... but I didn't see any increase in speed of boil or efficiency - and I probably spent every other night for 3 months in the winter, in the garage playing around - denatured alchohol, HEET, isopropyl, wicked, open top, jetted, compression, etc. etc.


I've settled on a Trangia for general use. I'll also carry a homemade Starlyte and some 'white box' variants... but for me, a few extra ounces in the Trangia isn't going to kill me. Perhaps when I get my body weight down to my ideal event weight, am doing a hike or a bike for a PR, or something... maybe I'll care.

[Lonesome Luddite]

I have been a big fan of alcohol stoves for nearly a decade, but I have had trouble with them in cold temperatures (<15f).  They are tough to light in those conditions and take forever to boil water or melt snow. Preheating the stove and fuel may help.  That said I've carried one for the past four years at the AHU (never used it, but I should have).  

This year I'll be using a Whisperlite Int'l because I expect to be melting snow on the second half of the course (I'm skiing again).  But since you'll be biking you may be able to get enough water at checkpoints and not worry too much about the stove.  If I were biking again I'd probably use an Esbit, though I haven't tried one in the cold yet.  As I recall they are as slow or slower than the alcohol to boil, but in a pinch they'll do.  

[J-No]

Jeremy,

I bought a varga ti alcohol/esbit stove.  I plan on using the tabs.  The tiny legs on the stove were pretty flimsy, so I chopped them off and glued the stove to an upside down tuna can.  I made a windscreen for it out of some flashing.  It all fits into a 700ml pot.  Of course I will test it extensively, but I'm hoping it will work.

[jkcustom]

This is all good information. Thanks. I am beginning to think that I might just go with what I know...and that is a Whisperlite. Skiing the Arrowhead last year, I only had to stop and melt snow once (which, in hindsight, I have a hard time believing since I was out for two nights...) Anyway...time and dependability start to become real factors when you get tired, cold and on the edge of good reasoning. Whatever system, make sure it will do what you want it to under potentially really cold temps (with clumsy fingers). Jeremy

[bmike-vt]

Jeremy,

I bought a varga ti alcohol/esbit stove.  I plan on using the tabs.  The tiny legs on the stove were pretty flimsy, so I chopped them off and glued the stove to an upside down tuna can.  I made a windscreen for it out of some flashing.  It all fits into a 700ml pot.  Of course I will test it extensively, but I'm hoping it will work.

I'm curious how that Ti stove works with alky. I've read mixed reviews - especially in the cold - about getting it up and running without a ton of priming, as Ti doesn't transfer heat well - so while it is lightweight - it suffers from not being the ideal material to use for alky as a fuel.

Please post some results / observations as you use it.

[FeloniousDunk]

I am talking cold... to 30,40 below.

Yikes!  At those temps, all my alcohol stove recommendations are worthless.  Stick to the white gas for those temp reasons and because you'll be there all night trying to melt enough snow with alcohol even if you did get it to work.

On another note, a side by side test of Heet versus this methanol I've got really puts Heet to shame.

[J-No]

I'm curious how that Ti stove works with alky. I've read mixed reviews - especially in the cold - about getting it up and running without a ton of priming, as Ti doesn't transfer heat well - so while it is lightweight - it suffers from not being the ideal material to use for alky as a fuel.

Please post some results / observations as you use it.

I'm planning on using esbit tabs in the stove, not alcohol.  There was a post on the AH forum where someone talked about squirting a little alcohol on the tabs before lighting.  I'll try it out for sure, if it does not work Gander Mtn is a mile from my house.

[Lonesome Luddite]

In a related question, what do folks use beneath their stoves to make a stable/insulating base?  In the past I've either cheated and not used the stove or found a log or piece of plywood, but I'd rather not have to poke around in the woods too much. 

[bmike-vt]

In a related question, what do folks use beneath their stoves to make a stable/insulating base?  In the past I've either cheated and not used the stove or found a log or piece of plywood, but I'd rather not have to poke around in the woods too much. 

small piece of silver / insulated bubble wrap, available from hardware or home supply stores.
it will last depending on how hot the stove gets...

i also have a 3 legged stand for my alky stoves made of recycled spokes.

[Kid Riemer]

In potential Arrowhead temps, you need to use a white gas stove like your Whisperlite. Ezbit tabs don't burn hot enough or long enough to efficiently make water from snow. Plus, they put that black sooty sticky stuff all over. Stay with the white gas stove! You need the fire power!

[J-No]

In potential Arrowhead temps, you need to use a white gas stove like your Whisperlite. Ezbit tabs don't burn hot enough or long enough to efficiently make water from snow. Plus, they put that black sooty sticky stuff all over. Stay with the white gas stove! You need the fire power!

-6degF this am.  The kids got a kick of me out on the deck trying to melt snow with my esbit tabs.  A little water to start and 10 minutes later after slowly adding snow I had about 8 oz of cold water.  On my ride today I may end up at the outfitters getting a white gas model.  

I'll read throught the reviews quick, but the whisperlite is good for the $$?

[Pivvay]

Whisperlites are good but don't buy a new one. I see them for $20-30 all the time. Seriously.

[J-No]

Thanks for the note.  I'd imagine the backpacking community is a little bit bigger in CO than MN.  I'll check the classifieds of a few sites I visit.

[Pivvay]

I'll play middle man if you want. There was a Whisperlite at Wilderness Exchange in the consignment area the other weekend that I swear was $25. Fuel can't be shipped but I assume clean stoves and bottles can go ground without issues.