Ultimate Pogies Design?

[jeremy11]

So, I made some pogies last winter, but would like to make a second pair soon, with some major refinements.
V1 worked well enough, but more could be done better.


Shell is Dyneema Gridstop (coated), then 2 layers of fleece, them a 1.1oz uncoated nylon liner (or maybe Momentum??)  2" wide flexible plastic stiffener down the top, 2 velcro straps internally to secure to bar ends, webbing to cinch around the bars.
Pattern is good, but could use a tiny bit more volume for easier shifter access - it is good now, but it depends on how straight the collar around the bars is.

So, some questions to the Pogie Experts on materials selection and other design considerations

Waterproof breathable shell?  Or just uncoated breathable?  WPB would be better for wet snow and block more wind
Removeable insulated liner?  Make a good WPB shell, with pockets, reflective strips, and maybe a vent zipper in the front then have velcro in liners with 1.1oz nylon shell with primaloft insulation (how thick?  0.6" or more?).  The vent zipper would only be in the WPB shell, and there would still be 2 layers 1.1oz nylon and insulation keeping the wind out, but it would help get condensation out of the shell when it is warmer.  The removable liner would also be easier to dry, although you would still have to remove the whole thing.  It would also allow you to add more insulation, or change the liner for a more or less insulated one depending on conditions.
What is the best way to make the wrist closure?  Maybe some elastic fleece or primaloft collar?

[jeremy11]

just ordered a bunch of materials from rockywoods.com
2 layer Gore tex, 200g Thinsulate Ultra, etc.
I'm planning on going with the WPB shell with front zip vent, then a removable insulated part.
Should be a fun project, and will hopefully work lots better than V1.

[timroz]

The pockets on the Epic Designs pogies are priceless.  I carry more food, batteries, clothing, electronics, and other stuff in them then I ever imagined I would.  Super easy access while riding.  Pockets with zips above and below the hands. 

[jeremy11]

are there zippered pockets inside the pogies around the wrists?  also looks like there is an outside pocket on top?  The stiffener would need to handle the weight of course.
Is the entire inside liner out of the thick fleece?

[timroz]

Pockets are outside - on top and bottom.  So the zips are at the wrist and the pockets are pleated so that they expand away from the hands.

Fully fleece lined.  I like it, but a more slippery liner would be nice if you are wearing gloves inside them.  Mine are so warm that I've never worn more than short finger riding gloves with them, and that's at -30f for a couple days.

I don't have stiffeners in mine.  I put light stuff (sunglasses, lip lube, balaclava, pringles, trash) in the upper pockets and heavy stuff (batteries, lights, food, GPS, etc) in the lower pockets.  It works fine.

[Damnitman]

I plan on spec-ing a couple things when I have my next pair built...BRIGHT Waterproof top and front / side panels, very breathable bottom fabrick (ultrex?).  Different build-angle for swept bars, un-insulated, breathable 3" gaiter at the opening.  Taffetta lining with 3/4" primaloft sport.  Top, bottom and inside pockets, maybe an exterior mesh pocket or two (at the inside of the bend)... LOTS of reflective stuff on front and sides, and a strip of pile where the pogies cinch to the bars (to seal out the cold)...
I like the idea of zip vents, but I can usually do the same by loosening the bar cincher strap things

[jeremy11]

great info, thanks.
I'm also going to put some scrunchy fleece around the bar closure to cut the wind out.  It is a nice vent as well but can be too chilly.  a vent in just the shell will help any condensation on the inside of the wpb shell dry out, and dump a little excess heat.
What's the uninsulated gaiter for?  keeping snow out of the insulated part?  does this interfere with the easy entry/exit?

[Damnitman]

yeah, sno and wind...also will allow me to cinch it shut to keep snow out on overnight bivy's...

[jeremy11]

nice, sounds like the gaiter is worth it just if just for overnight, then tuck it away during the day if it doesn't work well for that.

[Eric]

the pogie has you know...

the thickness of the fleece lining I think adds more warmth than adding a thicker insulation.
I'd avoid vents unless you can easily seal them completely - in real cold even the little gaps around the handlebars are enough to let too much cold in.

pockets on the bottom are key since stuff does not rest on your hands.

being able to convert the removable liners into booties would be cool.

[jeremy11]

Eric,
Are the inside of yours totally lined with fleece, or just the wrist seal?

Turning them into functional booties would be tricky.  I'd rather just bring separate booties, and have both do their jobs better.
The liner for one side is made, but I'm still not finalized on my design, I might make the L and R a bit different and then make another of whichever is better.

[jeremy11]

first one done.  200wt fleece inside (with non-zip pocket on bottom), 200g Thinsulate Ultra, Gore-Tex shell (a little thinner than I was hoping for, but ok), sides and top stripe over the cutting board stiffener is 1000 denier Cordura.  Zip pocket on bottom.  the wrist seal came out pretty ugly, but at that point, after breaking several needles and giving my Singer a hard workout, I was ready to be done.  I'll need to cook up a better order of operations for the final steps for the right side.  It is more spacious and feels warmer than pogies V1.  Also, a loop of insulation around the bars and two seal straps instead of one.  Can't wait to test them out!

[Blues Frog]

Does anyone have a more basic how-to? I would be a first time maker although i have made small belt packs and billfolds. Blues Frog

[sean salach]

The best pair I made I used coated ripstop, wool felt, fleece from Joann's and aluminum window screen from Lowe's. Ripstop inside and out to facilitate getting my hands in and out. Each layer was one solid piece, so that there was only one seam on the finished product. Pogies are pretty basic and easy. If you have a tote bag handy(rectangular bottom, open top), take a look at the construction. You can make the basic pogie shape almost identically. Then add a bar end loop, maybe a pocket to the inside and extend the material a bit toward the stem, and add a fastener to take up some of the slack near the cables.

[jeremy11]

V3 for a friend (along with the other sewn goods)
He's ridden in them a -13F and stayed warm.

V2 testing.... a little warm with the sun out, but nice when the temps drop.  Somehow I've still gotten cold hands in them even at moderate winter temps....but V3 has a better bar closure than V2.  I might need to modify these.


Too bad Grand Junction's winter is really lame right now..... oh well, school and tendonitis are keeping me boring anyway.

[DaveC]

One question before I start cutting fabric:

Any problems with moisture accumulating inside the insulation if using non-breathable fabrics for the shell?  I'm planning on using a heavier silnylon for the top/sides/front, and a breathable non-WP fabric underneath.  Climashield and fleece inside.  I'm thinking moisture accumulation is not a big deal just off the hands.

[jeremy11]

version 1 was coated dyneema gridstop with 2 layers of fleece.  condensation wasn't an issue in dry CO for single day stuff.  forearms and hands can put out enough perspiration to matter, but there is also a good bit of ventilation in pogie land.

[sean salach]

If it get's warm and you get lazy about folding the pogies over or removing them, moisture will definitely accumulate fast. On a <24 hr ride, it probably wont matter. On a multiday, if it gets cold after the first day, it could screw you.

[jeremy11]

how about waterproof fabric inside and out, vapor barrier style?

I figured the moisture thing would become an issue on longer trips.  It always does.  If its hot I'll open up the collar around the bars for ventilation.

[elitheknife]

I built a set of pogies last winter in a double skin fashion, ie, non-breathable outer shell with a doubled fleece liner that velcroed together at the arm cuff.  I found that even on longer rides, I was getting littler moisture build-up.  I would assume this is due to the shell-liner technique, and the fact that there is just enough ventilation between the layers. 

My arm cuffs were not tight to my arms either, but I never found that my hands got cold, even when down to about -30C.  I would also wear thin XC type gloves when it got below about -20C. 

Scott