Outer Layers?

[J-No]

I used a Patagonia R4 this year with limited scuccess.  During the AH 135 I thought it breathed okay until the condensation froze on the outside.  Once the jacket was wet I got pretty cold.

I tried a Windclime (Marmot) over my base layer and then fleece over the top.  I felt cold and hot at the same time.

On the Arrowhead forums this topic was addressed, but I don't think there is much activity there now.  eVent seemed popular, Integral Designs, Sporthill (3SP), ShowersPass.  Are most of these jackets billed as rain jackets?

Any thoughts?  I know we are coming on the tail end of winter, but if I can get something on sale, it would be all the better.

[Slim]

You didn't say what conditions you will be using it for? Temperature? Humidity? Level of exertion? How much protection do you need? Rain? Snow? Wind? All these things affect the choice of clothing.

In general the more waterproof and windproof the garment the less breathable it becomes, but this can be combated with ventilation.
condensation becomes more problematic in high humidity, high exertion or in extreme cold, when wearing the shell as the outermost layer. Choosing the right outfit requires looking at moisture and heat porduced by you vs moisture, wind and heat outside.

3SP is wind resistant only, not windproof, also insulating. Microfiber(like driclime) is more windresistant. Nikwax Analogy is also very windresistant as well as very breathable and insulating.

In the waterproof camp Event is very breathable, Windstopper and Goretex are perhaps more windproof.

[J-No]

Thanks.  I am looking for cold weather riding.  Ride times of several hours to a day or more.  Below zero temps.  Probably not so much rain, possibly snow.  Definitely need wind protection.

Edit:  Slim, I'm in your neck of the woods, if that helps

[Lonesome Luddite]

For the AHU I've used a windfront jersey and tights from Craft.  Both use the Gore Windstopper material but only for the front side.  Along with a Smartwool baselayer I've been pretty dry and warm.  At night I'll add a fleece vest with a down jacket and pants in case it gets super cold.  

An XC skier friend of mine swears by wearing fleece over a wind resistant jacket and I think he's on the right track.  The fleece keeps you warm and allows the breathable jacket to do it's job without clogging up with frozen sweat.  Most of the top guys (Pramann, Oatley, Basinger) appear to be using something similar.  

As far as condensation on the outside, that's fine so long as it's white and fluffy, like snow.  You can brush it off if you like.  If it's soaking your fleece that's bad.  

I don't think there is a waterproof jacket on the market that is breathable enough for what you (we) want.  Too many people seem to think that waterproof is necessary for cold, but they always seem to be the ones swimming in their own sweat at -10f.  

[jeremy11]

Nikwax Analogy is also very windresistant as well as very breathable and insulating.

I use a Paramo (Nikwax Analogy fabric) Aspira jacket and it is great.  Very breathable, some insulation, mostly waterproof, but no condensation build up.  Great for anything active in the winter.

[Slim]

Indeed what happens in very cold weather is that the temperature where water vapor(off your body) turns into liquid and then ice, is some where inside your clothing system. Think about it:
Your skin is 90F, the outside air is 0F. Somewhere in between it is going to be cold enough to condesate the water vapor.
This is why the systems with fleece over a wind resistant/windproof layer work. The fleece creates a warmer microclimate on the windproof layer, while being so ventelating that the moisture laden air is carried out, before it condensates in the fabric too much. Als , since fleece absorbs little water it can be shaken out to remove the ice. The Windproof layer below also prevents water from dripping back into your base layer. The windproof layer is there because without it on windy days you would need such thick fleece insulation that condensation would occur inside again.

A combination of the systems mentioned by the people above might be best:
Baselayers with windproof fronts with fleece over the top. Make sure to treat the fleece with wash-in water repellency treatment. This way, you keep maximum breathability where it isn't detrimental and the duo system where you need it most.

I wonder if what went wrong with your Driclime set-up was a lack of temperature regulation options, so you were simply overheating, building up liquid sweat, then getting cold from saturated clothing.

I have a Cioch Direct parka that is great, using the Nikwax analogy, but it is not really relevant here, as he  was talking about extreme cold, whre waterproofness is not important.

[J-No]

Thanks again for all the input.  The Marmot garmet I was wearing was older and said "WindStopper" on it.  I was looking into the Driclime and I saw my brother wearing it one day and thought I'd borrow it.  I wonder if it is different than the Driclime?

Anyway, I'll keep experimenting.  The temps have warmed up, but we will probably get at least one more cold snap.

The fleece I was wearing said it used Polarguard.  I bought it at Gander Mtn for $25.  I wonder if that affected the breathability?

Thanks again for all the input

[Slim]

Windstopper is a registered trademark of Gore, so if it says the word 'windstopper' it uses their fabric, which is a laminate with a lightweight version of the Goretex membrain.

The Driclime uses a loose liner fabric and a microfiber shell with no coating/membrain, so it has much more ventilation/breathability than windstopper and such.

Fleece  does vary in breathability, but has nothing to do with price/quality. Actually it is more a matter of ventilating, the moist air is moved through the fabric.
Microfleece is the least breathable. windpro might be  a bit less breathable too.

[J-No]

Thanks!!!

[Lonesome Luddite]

Yeah, some "fleece" is about as breathable as a garbage bag. 

Slim explained the fleece over wind layer better than I ever could.